Category Archives: Uncategorized

Tuesday, June 19th 2007

We had an interesting thing happen tonight. Becky was handing out tracts and saw a group of people walking towards her. She offered them a tract and it turns out that the group was from a Lutheran church in Denton Texas. The youth pastor, Ron Dupree, had heard me speak at a Lutheran workers conference at Concordia Lutheran Church some time last year. He was interested in Manti and e-mailed back and forth with Becky a couple of times about the possibility of them bringing a team up to Manti and having us do some training. Becky was freaked out when Ron greeted her by name, “Hello Becky.”

Totally unbeknownst to us, they had decided to come. There were a total of 10 people in their team. I thought it was funny that the first person they encountered on the street was Becky.

The beginning of my night was spent speaking with one of the local cops, Mark. I noticed that he had skateboard tape on the handle of his gun. Some times shooters will do that to help with their grip on the gun. Mark and I spoke about a lot of things, but not little of anything of a religious nature.

The only other conversation of note was with a guy named CJ. He was on the fringe of a small group of Mormons who were talking to a Christian from Salt Lake named Robert. The dude is a walking library. CJ was trying to jump into the conversation to break it up. I stood next to him and asked if he had a question for the guy speaking (Robert). He said that he really didn’t, he just wanted to make comments. I told him that I would like to hear his comments.

CJ was angry with Robert’s sign, Josephlied.com. He was telling me that we didn’t have an invitation to be there and that what we were doing was rude because we always started out with bad news. Mormons are always saying that we should just talk about what is positive in our religion without saying anything negative about theirs.

I pointed out that since this was a public event, we didn’t need an invitation to be there and then asked what if he served a mission. When he said he did, I asked him what the first lesson was about. He wasn’t sure what I was getting at so I reminded him about the apostasy. He then admitted that Mormonism would make no sense without the apostasy, i.e., the idea that all of Christendom was fallen. I asked him what the difference was in us starting out talking about the problems of Mormonism when they start out talking about the problems of Christianity. I think that was a new thought for him.

Later on in the conversation he said that he knows lots of Christians and that they always accuse Mormons of focusing on works and not grace. He tried to tall me that they believe in grace also. He then said, “We believe in grace too. Yes, we believe that you have to be baptized… and yes, we need to do temple works… and then there is performing the ordinances and keeping the commandments.” I interjected, “And all those other works.” He repeated, “And all those other works, but we really believe in grace!”

I thought it was very telling that he didn’t even see the problem with his last statement.

Saturday, June 16th 2007

Part 2

The days are already running together. I passed out a lot of tracts again and got into some short conversations, but nothing very memorable. Since I don’t remember much from Saturday, I thought I would just post some pictures of Becky, James and Rosanne from some of their conversations. I think their evenings went better than mine conversation-wise.

Pictures from left to right. Rosanne talking with a group of Mormons. Becky praising God. Rosanne’s conversation from another angle.

James helping Pastor Rodney with his internet connection at home. Rosanne cutting hair. James going through the Impossible Gospel with a group of LDS kids.

Extra

Before I get to Saturday part-2, I wanted to mention something that happened on Thursday night. Aaron Shafovaloff lives here in Utah and often street preaches. He will walk around with a sign and talk about how Joseph Smith had 30 something wives, how some of them were as young as 14 and others were already married to other Mormon men.

It usually doesn’t take long before a Mormon will challenge him on what he is saying and then he will direct the conversation onto more important subjects. He also carries a little folding step stool so that once a crowd gathers, he unfolds the stool and stands in the middle of the crowd and preaches. Some times Mormons will ask him questions and he will ask them to speak up so that everyone can hear them. He handles the crowd very well.

Saturday, June 16th 2007
Part 1

Every morning at Ephraim Church of the Bible Christians gather for praise, prayer, ex-Mormon testimonies and to listen to the teaching of a pageant veteran. This morning Becky had the privilege of presenting the Impossible Gospel of Mormonism. (scroll down the page from the previous link until you see the listing.) Becky did a good job and many people came up to her afterwards to thank her for sharing our approach.

Not only did Becky get to teach this morning, but she had a very cool witnessing experience in the bathroom of McDonald’s before we arrived at the church. Becky is keeping a journal so I’ll just have her tell you herself.

Today’s morning started out with a bang. We went to the showers and I had
trouble finishing up because we had planned to go to McDonald’s for the guys to
get some breakfast. It was a non-hair-washing day for me, so I decided, in order
to not have everyone waiting on me, I would just do my hair at McDonald’s since
I was not going to eat anyway. Rosanne saw my hair and advised my not to brush
it out because she thought it looked curly and nice and Keith even agreed with
me and told me not to brush it out, but I told them I felt nappy and yucky
having not brushed my hair since last night and then slept on it too. I was
adamant that I was going to go into the bathroom at McDonald’s and fix my hair,
even with Keith teasing me, telling me to take the advice of the professional.
(Rosanne is a cosmologist)

I went in the bathroom and started working on my mop-head when a lady
employee came in, used the restroom and then came over to the mirror to wash her
hands. I removed my stuff and stepped out of the way and told her she was there
for the right reasons, not me, so I would gladly step aside. She said she
understood not having time to fix yourself at home. I told her I was camping in
the park, so it was nice to have a real mirror to use. She asked why I was there
and I told her it was for the pageant. She asked where I was from and then she
told me she lived in a near by town. We exchanged names and then she told
me she had lived there all her life and had just seen the pageant for the first
time last year.

I told her this was our 8th year coming and that we were Christian
missionaries to the LDS people and coming to Manti was the highlight of our
year. She looked surprised and then said quietly, “I have been LDS all my
life but a while back, my husband and I visited a Christian church and we think
we believe more of what they teach at Christian churches than at the LDS
church!” My jaw probably dropped to the floor! I asked her if she knew
about Ephraim Church of the Bible, but she did not. I told her where it was,
since had heard about it.

I asked her if I could take a moment to pray for her and she seemed
shocked, but then we stood there in the bathroom and I prayed for her. As soon
as she finished she said, “You know, when I came in here, I noticed your
T-shirt with the cross on it, so I figured you were a Christian. Do you know
what the LDS say about the cross?” She proceeded to tell me and then she
said rather proudly, “BUT I HAVE 10 OF THEM!” We
laughed together and then she described some of them to me.

I asked her if she knew why we loved the cross as Christians. She said she
wanted me to tell her, but that she needed to clock in very soon, so I quoted I
Cor. 1:18 to her that says, “For the cross of Christ is foolishness to
those who are perishing, but to us, it is the power of God.” I told her
that I’d be back to see her, told her about the wonderful folks at the church
and that they would so love to help her and her husband. She seemed sincerely
grateful, took a tract, and left. What a wonderful way to start the day! Again,
another example of having to be ready in season and out of season. Later, I told
Rosanne and Keith that I was right…I was supposed to go fix my hair!

OK, I’m hungry so I’ll have to post our Saturday evening activities later.

Tonight was MUCH better! The park was packed with tents and the crowd on the streets was a large one like we use to have a few years ago. It started off pretty slow, but as I was talking to Becky, I noticed a young teenaged girl with a camera behind me. She looked like she wanted to take a picture of my T-shirt.

Friday , June 15th 2007

We normally wear our team shirt on Saturday’s, but since the biggest crowds are on Friday nights, we decided to wear them tonight instead. (See the May 22nd entry for a picture of our T-shirt) I walked over to the girl and asked if she wanted a picture of my shirt. She looked caught and said she didn’t, but I posed for her anyways. She said, “Well, OK. I will if you really want me to.” She took my picture and then asked what it meant. Becky and I were able to talk to 5-8 teens about the impossible gospel, grace and the Biblical gospel. At one point, the mother of one of the kids came over and listened too. Usually when parents come over, it is to break up the conversation. This lady eventually did lead the kids away, but not until we were able to explain a lot.

Throughout the evening, numerous people walked up to me and asked about my shirt. They are great conversation starters. One guy didn’t really want to talk, he just wanted to understand the message of the shirt. I explained it once and he said, “Well, it sounds like the same thing to me.” I explained it again and this time told him that the difference was between knowing that Jesus is sufficient rather than just one of many necessary things. Once I told him that since Jesus is sufficient to forgive my sins, the temple is unnecessary, he understood what I was getting at. He thanks me for explaining the shirt, took a tract and walked off.

I got into another impossible gospel conversation with a returned Mormon missionary named Justin. Things were going pretty well for awhile. During our conversation, three young ladies walked up and said, “We just want to know what you believe.” I told them that I was talking about that to Justin and that they were welcome to listen. They stood there for awhile until one of Justin’s friends came over and told him that his group was going to go sit down and that he should come with them. From that point on Justin seemed defensive and would not answer simple questions. The girls got a little nervous and walked off. It wasn’t until Justin ended the conversation that I turned around and noticed his buddy standing about 15 feet behind me.

I realized that Justin was getting defensive because he felt as if he had to look like he was in control of the conversation in front of his friend. One on one conversations can be so sincere until someone the Mormon knows comes over and listens. Then all of a sudden the atmosphere changes because their pride gets in the way and they don’t want to be viewed as weak. Justin got kind of frustrated and left. He still took a tract though so that was good.

It wasn’t too long before I got into another good conversation with some teens. I was talking to some Christian friends of mine and they pretty much just walked up and started talking to me. This conversation was with more than 10 teens and lasted for the rest of the night. It started with one a couple of main guys and then shifted once this other kid showed up. He was 16 and had a pretty sharp mind except for the time he told me how humble he was… oh, and he was serious. He was following my argument and asked some good questions. We went through the impossible gospel and got stuck on the point about repentance. That is what usually happens when you are talking to a group. Someone will come in late and start to raise objects that have already been raised and answered. When that happens, it seems like we’re just talking in circles.

Most of the kids stayed around for a good part of the conversation, but after most of the kids had left, this one kid stayed and talked. I think he felt “beat” and wanted to try to save face. He got frustrated again and left. Bill McKeever and I were standing there, turned around and saw this little, cocky 12 year old kid standing there. We started talking to him and then the previous kid saw that and came back to tell us how sad it was that we were picking on little kids. We explained that they walked up to us, not the other way around. He got on his little soap box and started talking about how I was way too prepared for him (like that is somehow a bad thing) and that he wasn’t prepared, but was being lead by the Lord to talk to me as eloquently as he was. I told him he was doing a great job and that I would love to talk with him one on one. The other kids were standing there looking at him and he said that he wouldn’t because all my scriptures were marked up and that I was too prepared, but all he had was God. I asked him why he needed any more than god and pointed out to him that I did not have my scriptures marked up. He then pointed at another piece of literature that I had shared with them and said that one was marked up. I handed it to him and asked him where I had marked it up. He handed it back and said, “Well, maybe you don’t, but I’m still not prepared.”

His group came back to retrieve him and I talked him into taking one of my tracts so that he could e-mail me if he had any questions. He looked hesitant, but I kept pleading with him. He said, “OK, I’ll read this tract and call you in a week.” He had a big smile on his face like he was looking forward to the challenge. I pray that he does call and that God gets a hold of him.