Conversations with Jehovah’s Witnesses in Public Places

KW- Well, just, just so you know, whenever I’m listening to somebody preach, if they’re giving a Bible reference, even if I know it, I always go to it. It’s just a habit.

JWS- That’s what we are trained to do too. At the Sunday talk, the person that gives that talk uses an outline that comes from the branch, which feeds us through the faithful and discreet slave. I’m not going to explain that right now, but there’s a pathway that God is using for channeling information. The talks on Sunday are part of that channeled information.

KW- So they’re preaching somebody else’s message.

JWS- They’re preaching God’s message.

He emphasized “God’s message”. JWB heartily agreed.

KW- So God’s message comes from this slave?

He immediately knew he went too far in telling me what they really believed.

JWS- …comes through the, yeah. I’m going to… This is getting too complicated.

We all laughed. The look on his face was as if he was wondering how he got caught so quickly saying something he believes, but didn’t want to reveal yet.

One of the things God has gifted me with is the ability to make observations and put statements together in a simple, concise format. I’m able to boil down the basic components of an argument and repeat them back accurately. When a person hears their statement restated, it is often uncomfortable when they realize what they actually said.

KW- (Smiling and referring to JWA and JWV) Ask them, I ask complicated questions.

They lightheartedly agreed.

JWS- That’s okay, because it’ll make sense to you later on. When we’re in the meetings, the brother is giving the talk from the platform directs our attention to scriptures in the Bible. Honestly, I can quote most of the scriptures that those brothers ask us to look at. But I go and I look at them again anyway. Just to make sure that what’s coming from the platform is what the Bible says. And that’s what we always want to do. We want to be critical of what we hear so that we know we’re hearing the truth.

He brought up Acts 17:11 as an example. Their New World Translation (NWT) reads, “Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.” He explained the verse and said they are to emulate their example.

This couldn’t be further from the truth. Jehovah’s Witnesses are told to simultaneously obey two opposite commandments. The first is to do what he just explained; be critical of the information they receive and to check it against the Bible.

The second command is contradictory. The February 15^th,1981 edition of the Watchtower magazine states on page 19, “If we have once established what instrument God is using as his “slave” to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using.”

Which is it? Are JWs expected to be critical of what they hear, or are they to treat it as though it might contain something harmful? Unfortunately, most JWS don’t see the inconsistency.

I love bringing up Acts 17:11 to Jehovah’s Witnesses, but it is more powerful when they bring it up themselves. I decided to add my thoughts to the verse also.

KW- That is one thing that I really appreciate about Paul in this passage. He didn’t take offense at being fact-checked.

JWS- No, we don’t either.

This simply isn’t true. Every former Jehovah’s Witness who is reading this is pulling their hair out right about now. The Watchtower has zero toleration for any kind of questioning within their ranks.

JWS- So you want to do the fact-checking because you know if there’s anything that can destroy things, it’s when you start listening to somebody and they go off the horse a little bit and we catch it. That’s when misleading comes in. I don’t want to be misled. We want to focus on what the scriptures say.

The ladies spoke up about comparing what we may hear with what the Bible teaches and how important it is to discern truth from what isn’t true. JWB started explaining how every Kingdom Hall around the world studies the exact same information at the same time.

JWB- I have a friend who visited Paris. When they were there, they found a Kingdom Hall and were shocked when they opened up their magazine to find that they picked right up where they left off.

Studying the Watchtower magazine? Why are they not studying the Bible? JWS decided to add his impressions when he first attended a JW service.

JWS- You know what impressed me about my first meeting with Jehovah’s Witnesses? I was impressed by how people are trained, earth-wide. The Bible says that we should be unified in thought. The only way for people all over the earth to be unified in thought is if they get the same information each week, which is what Jehovah’s Witnesses receive. (JWS begins to brag) All of Jehovah’s Witnesses have the same Bible study on Sunday. Now, what does that tell you?

KW- That could be a red flag.

JWS- What?

KW- That could be a red flag.

JWA- Why do you say that?

KW- The verse we were just talking about where Paul is preaching and the people in Berea fact-checked him. Was that the same message that was in some other town at the same time back then? I don’t think it would be because they didn’t have the same way of communicating that we do today. Unity and uniformity are different things. I don’t see how there could be acceptable fact checking if everybody has to believe the same thing.

JWA- There’s only one truth.

JWS- The only way for everybody to be united in the same line of thought is that they received that thought from somewhere, right?

I didn’t catch this until just now. Think about it. “They received that thought from somewhere.” If everyone is receiving their thoughts from somewhere else, that means they aren’t thinking for themselves. I hope I remember to make this observation in our next conversation.

KW- But how did they do that in the first century?

JWS- Well, Paul is one of the examples of people that did that. He went from place to place. He was, what we call, a traveling overseer. He would go from one congregation to another congregation to make sure that what they were being taught was the same thing. We have the same thing today.

You know, our organization follows the same pattern that was back in the first century. We have, traveling overseers that come to our congregation twice a year. They observe us. They see how we are talking. Are we speaking the truth?

KW- Then that gets back to my question. If we’re all believing the same thing, how is there acceptable fact checking?

JWA- We have to go back to scriptures.

JWS-We have to agree with the Bible.

KW- I’m still trying to wrap my mind around this. I understand that Paul’s going to different places and they’re spreading his letters out so everybody’s learning the same thing. If I’ve accepted Paul as my overseer, and the thing that I told you about how I really appreciated Paul not taking offense to being fact-checked… what if Paul was wrong about something and the people in one location pointed it out saying, “Paul, the scripture says this, but yet you’re teaching this.” What would be the process of correcting Paul?

JWA- Whenever he spoke, God was speaking the truth.

KW- Then why would I fact check that?

JWA explained more about how early Christians used the scriptures to verify what Paul was saying. I knew they weren’t understanding my point so I dropped the subject knowing there will be more opportunities to discuss this problem again.

JWS- I had a Bible study one time who was enamored with Billy Graham. He just ate Graham’s stuff up. We looked at the newspaper for that day. He read the account and then I told him there are a number of places where this directly contradicts the Bible. These were black and white issues and Billy Graham was wrong.

I could take any of his articles, he said something that went against the Bible in every one of them. And believe me, when somebody starts talking, I can tell right away if they’re on target. If they’re disagreeing with what the Bible says, I could straighten them out real quick.

He wasn’t yelling, but his tone changed dramatically. He was flat out bragging at this point. He looked me straight in the eyes and said…

JWS- I can say, “This is what the Bible really says” and if you can’t do that, guess what? One of these days, somebody’s going to drag you off and devour you.

I had SO many thoughts racing through my mind all at once. Here are three.

1) Do you have any idea how arrogant you sound right now?
2) I was getting the sense that the ladies thought he had gone a little overboard. Especially JWA.
3) What does the Bible say we are to do when Satan comes prowling? JWS was thinking about 1^st Peter 5:8, which their NWT says, “Keep your senses, be watchful! Your adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour someone.” What JWS didn’t quote was the next verse. “But take your stand against him, firm in the faith…” James 4:7 (NWT) says, “Therefore, subject yourselves to God, but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you.” I’ve been teaching my kids that we are to be the kind of Christians that demons fear. Rather than address all of that, I grinned and said,

KW- “I’m a mouthful.”

JWS- (Speaking with the same cocky attitude) Satan is hungry. He will eat you up so you have to make sure that you don’t get misled.

I don’t know if it is possible to grin harder, but I did. The irony of that statement couldn’t stay behind my teeth.

KW- I agree with that 100%.

JWA added to the irony.

JWA- So we have to understand in our heart and mind, that our Heavenly Father wouldn’t make things so complicated that we wouldn’t understand it. He would never make it that hard.

JWA’s irony is because the Watchtower teaches JWs that they cannot understand the Bible without them. JWA says God wouldn’t make it too hard, but the Watchtower says otherwise.

“Without the assistance of ‘the faithful and discreet slave,’ we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it.” (Watchtower 9/15/2021 p.8) JWS then explained how he puts a puzzle together. Find the corners, edges, group like colors together etc.

JWS- To get the big picture, it calls for a systematic approach. That’s why we use this publication. It helps us put the big picture together.

He spoke about how the Bible is a light and lamp from Psalm 109:115 and tied that together with being in harmony with other Christians. He then brought up Billy Graham again.

JWS- We need to be in harmony as opposed to not being in harmony like Billy Graham. He’s out in left field. He had no idea what the truth was. I hope he wasn’t one of your favorite authors. Even if he was, it wouldn’t matter to me.

What a dumb, insensitive thing to say. Little does he know, and I’ll be looking for an opportunity to tell him, but I became a Christian at a Billy Graham Crusade. I imagine that many people could be offended at a statement like this. That would be a good way to lose an audience. I thought it best to hold my tongue. JWS stopped his rant and directed his attention back to the JW Library app.

There is one handy feature in it that I like. The lessons have hyperlinks to Bible verses, but also to short videos. The video they showed me was about a lady who studied with Jehovah’s Witnesses and had all her questions answered. Of course all of these answers come from questions the Watchtower provides, but the impression they are trying to convey is that their literature teaches exactly what the Bible says.

JWS- We’re not giving you our words about things. We’re giving you God’s words. So when you say, “I agree”, who you agreeing with?

KW- That depends. That’s a red flag for me.

JWS- Agreeing with God should never be a red flag.

This is a perfect example of a logical fallacy called “begging the question”. It is assuming the conclusion you are trying to prove. In this instance, JWS assumes Watchtower literature is from God. When I objected to that premise because it is a red flag, JWS basically said that I should accept their literature because agreeing with God should never be a red flag. He just assumed the premise he tried to prove.

KW- To say that what you’re saying is what God is saying? That’s a prophet. Prophets speak for God. You better be right or we’re going to start stoning you.

Everyone laughed at that. It is good to use humor when making a hard point. It helps with the indigestion.

Each of them gave me a testimony of sorts about how they came to know “the truth”. This is very similar to Mormons explaining how they “know” Mormonism is true because they had a burning in their bosom. Instead of using that phrase, JWs say they “heard the ring of truth”.

We decided to move on in the lesson and watched a video of JW teens sharing their thoughts about the Bible. There was one statement from a girl from India that stood out to me. She said she likes to study Bible topics and what interests her. This reminded me of something we had already discussed.

KW- The Indian girl said something that was kind of interesting. She mentioned topics. I was thinking about how we were just talking about how Paul wrote his letters and sent them to different cities. His letters aren’t exactly topical. I enjoy that. I’m not saying it’s wrong to look at things topically, because I think that’s good too. But there’s something about just sticking with what was written in the order that it was written that helps understand not just the different perspectives, but what was his intention for this passage? How does it flow from one thought to another? Is that the kind of study that you guys do as well?

This is something JWs DO NOT do. There is no such thing as expository preaching in a Kingdom Hall. Instead of taking one passage and going through it verse by verse, the Watchtower writes its publications by taking a collection of passages and cramming them all together, regardless of subject or context.

JWS- Do you think the Bible was written in chronological order?

KW- I’m not talking about chronologically. I’m talking about just looking at Philippians. We start in verse one and go all the way through to the end of the book.  Paul, we really mean God, had a certain way he wanted to teach the people who were reading that book. How it flows from one thought to another, from one subject to another, but it’s all put together with some sort theme. I think it’s fascinating to see how the writers of the Bible connect things and how it just flows from one subject or topic to another.

JWS- What would you attribute that to?

KW- That’s the Holy Spirit.

JWA- But then you have to remember too that Romans, Philippians, Corinthians, those were letters to congregations. Overseers come to visit the congregation to help them with whatever challenge they had, that’s exactly what you’re going to read. When Paul’s writing to the Romans, he addresses those things. When he’s writing to the Philippians, he addresses those things. So, there’s not a topical order, but there’s whatever was needed at that time.

They are completely missing the point.

KW- What I’m saying though, is I really enjoy the verse by verse look at the scriptures. If that’s the way God gave it to us, then why aren’t we studying it that way?

The look on JWS’ face was priceless. All he could do was deflect.

JWS- By the way, there is a chronological reading schedule for the Bible where you can read it in the order that it was written. Go to the website and in the search block, put in ‘chronological order’.

Again, he didn’t address my point. I decided to let it go and pick it up sometime in the future. Pressing the issue would have been detrimental to my overall goal of getting them to think for themselves instead of being content with whatever the Watchtower feeds them.

The rest of the discussion was nothing of note. When it was time to end, JWS said he wanted to close with a prayer. One thing he said stands out. “Help us to be worthy of your approval so that we can benefit from all the eternal blessings.”  I would like to discuss in the future. I decided to add my own prayer.

KW- Lord Jesus, thank you for the discussion and for the breeze.

It was hot so we were all thankful for that. So much so that JWS added an “amen” to my prayer. That’s HUGE! As mentioned above, JWs don’t like it when other people pray, especially when Jesus is addressed. I wonder if JWS will avoid praying in the future, knowing that I’m going to pray also. I hope he asks me why I pray to Jesus. That will be a fun conversation.